Curse

chuckles79 · Feb 12, 2011, 01:34 AM // 01:34

I think it would be more cathartic for GW players to have a rant sheet than to rage on hapless teammates who can do hard mode but still don't know how to play.
I suggest this topic stick to the Z quest/bounty of the day. I'm sure there are things you can say about PuGs in general, but we're talking about the daily 6/8 lf monks to go.

Today's zq: Moddok Crevice

a group of 7 casters and 1 melee, the melee stays in the back

Dunkoro not put on Avoid Combat...

To that special ranger who made my day and inspired this thread, Ebon Vanguard Sin Support is NOT a snare!

Also to that special derv who was 2 aggro circles away from nearest healing....almost has me dreading the derv update.

Please continue this thread, but please don't name names.

Cuilan · Feb 12, 2011, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Nice leaderships and communication skills. Even if you weren't leader, some of that is your fault. Players including myself can go on and on about how awful bots are.

Sankt Hallvard · Feb 12, 2011, 02:12 AM // 02:12

If you were smart you did Moddok Crevice back in 2005 and you wouldn't have this problemo.

StormDragonZ · Feb 12, 2011, 02:32 AM // 02:32

I am a noob. Everyone else is pro. Everyone should be better than me.

Repeat this to yourself every single time you're in a PuG. Also, tell your teammates this also. That way, everyone understands that everything will be your fault and everyone can shut the GO RED ENGINE up if they need to complain.

Anyone who continues to complain after this has been established are elitists. Elitists can find a problem or response to anything, even if it's completely random or unrelated to the task at hand.

PuGs are for pros and noobs. If you're working with an elitist, leave the PuG immediately.

Killed u man · Feb 12, 2011, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

I am a noob. Everyone else is pro. Everyone should be better than me.

Repeat this to yourself every single time you're in a PuG. Also, tell your teammates this also. That way, everyone understands that everything will be your fault and everyone can shut the GO RED ENGINE up if they need to complain.

Anyone who continues to complain after this has been established are elitists. Elitists can find a problem or response to anything, even if it's completely random or unrelated to the task at hand.

PuGs are for pros and noobs. If you're working with an elitist, leave the PuG immediately.

So you'dd rather lose 10 times in a row with incredibly bad players -read: average PvE'er- than win the first try with a guy who might be elitist, and maybe looks down on people, but atleast is capable of carrying the 7 other people.

I, and any sane person, would choose the latter. The problem is that people in PvE have no clue where they stand, skillwise, in position to other people. I did DoA the other day with some random euros who were completely clueless, and insisted on running a Mantra of Frost rit in a regular glaiveway.
Later I discovered that every team has atleast 3 of people who have absolutely no clue how Guild Wars works, and they really are better off just getting carried by other people.

As for Zaishen PuG:

I decided to tag along a couple of Zquest mission groups a couple of days ago. After 2 attempts in HM, I did it with heroes, twice as fast, first try. It's sad, but pugging 2011 is a terrible experience to go through.

Kunder · Feb 12, 2011, 02:55 AM // 02:55

TL;DR of this thread: 95% of guild wars players fail absolutely horribly outside of premade farms on PvX that they can watch tutorials of on Youtube and have practiced at least 50 times (less then 50 times they still fail often). No surprises.

How to deal with PUGS: 6/8 slots are reserved for you, your 3 heroes who will get shit done, and 2 heal/prot henchmen. Anyone you invite to the party is there purely at your pleasure and only needs to outdamage henchmen to be worthwhile. If someone proves themselves to be a shitty person or a shitty player they are kicked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckles79

Dunkoro not put on Avoid Combat...

Mo/Me hero with inspiration is the best energy management a monk hero can have. In any case, avoid combat is usually worse because it causes heroes to run away from their positions. Stop being bad at Guild Wars and kill things before they endanger your monks

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckles79

To that special ranger who made my day and inspired this thread, Ebon Vanguard Sin Support is NOT a snare!

They can do knockdown on the first skill they use. Granted, it isn't what you want in Moddok, but it is a snare.

mage767 · Feb 12, 2011, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Actually, from my experience, its the PUG monks who suck the most. They will bring some cookie cutter build from wiki, and will not customize bar slightly to task at hand. As a result, when the team gets hit hard, the monks are to blame.

I never do ZM/ZB with pugs on any profession except on my monk. My monking skills are above average, and pugs give me a hard time, which I actually like - better than standing and doing nothing. However, when I play any other profession, I always pick heroes, since only my heroes can keep up with my speed of killing. Also, while monking, I keep my mouth shut as best as I can (i.e. no elitism), and don't guide anyone through the task. I concentrate my effort in keeping the team alive and hold no grudge against bad players with random ineffective bars. If I can finish a challenging dungeon this way, I feel I did well in my role.

UnChosen · Feb 12, 2011, 03:10 AM // 03:10

You are complaining because of Modok?

Believe me, this is nothing compared to the hell that I've went through for the EoTN dungeons, UW, FoW, Deep, Urgoz, and DoA. Even just today I've gotten groups that seem hell-bent on running through 30+ Nettle plant or 20+ Gokir mobs simply because they can't seem to spare the extra 5 minutes to clear out the room. Bogroot Growth is one of the easiest dungeons.

Granted, our killing speed was SLLLOOOWWW because we had 3 f**king eles on our team (in hard mode), but still not a reason to constantly try to sneak past questionable mobs that are 0.5mm away from the aggro circle. Oh yeah, I got 2 gemstones for the effort and 2k in total, without counting the DP removers and Lockpicks I used.../sigh

The run was much better on my second and third character, but that was because we had DwG, SoS, SF, MM and mesmers instead. Anet better not nerf any of those.

Cuilan · Feb 12, 2011, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

So you'dd rather lose 10 times in a row with incredibly bad players -read: average PvE'er- than win the first try with a guy who might be elitist, and maybe looks down on people, but atleast is capable of carrying the 7 other people.

Nothing he said had to do with the skill or the knowledge of the player. Elitism is a different issue.

chuckles79 · Feb 12, 2011, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Please don't make this "this is why I hate Pug's and never play them" thread. This is a "I PuG because I USUALLY enjoy playing with other people and these idiots ruined the experience"

Life Bringing · Feb 12, 2011, 03:27 AM // 03:27

To be honest, you have no right to complain about pugs. When you pug, you should know exactly what youre getting yourself in to, and thats an hour of hell in the easiest of missions. If you truly wish to have a relaxing and fast ZM, ZB, etc, h/h it.

Cuilan · Feb 12, 2011, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

If you truly wish to have a relaxing and fast ZM, ZB, etc, h/h it.

That would be pretty boring for some players, hell for others who hate AI, and a bad choice for those who are poor with heroes. This isn't really what this topic is about, but it'll for sure end up into this sort of discussion.

Life Bringing · Feb 12, 2011, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

That would be pretty boring for some players, hell for others who hate AI, and a bad choice for those who are poor with heroes. This isn't really what this topic is about, but it'll for sure end up into this sort of discussion.

I understand that h/hing isnt for everyone, but the fact remains that pugging isnt the only option available to players. If pugs frustrate you, stop pugging and start h/hing

chuckles79 · Feb 12, 2011, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Honestly, if I didn't want to play with people I'd be playing Neverwinter Nights or one of many non-human interactive rpgs available.

BTW, here's what I don't get. Why does a person who dislikes playing with random people, go on forums about the game to discuss the game with random people?

Also 9 times out of 10, a PuG works just fine. Oh there are a few missions where I've learned to avoid pugs (Assault on the Stronghold and the inevitable team scatter when the saurus arrives).

This thread serves 2 purposes, it allows you to post a "the stupidest thing I saw someone do today" and might remind someone who is going to do the mission in a bit of things not to do.

chuckles79 · Feb 12, 2011, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Mo/Me hero with inspiration is the best energy management a monk hero can have. In any case, avoid combat is usually worse because it causes heroes to run away from their positions. Stop being bad at Guild Wars and kill things before they endanger your monks

They can do knockdown on the first skill they use. Granted, it isn't what you want in Moddok, but it is a snare.

Ok first off, if you are thinking of Moddok Crevice, you might remember that the corsairs cast toxicity on the ramp and if you attack it they'll rush up the stairs and attack you from behind. Which normally would not be too bad except for the derv I mentioned aggroing sh!t 3 circles away. Heroes always attack it so you make your hero avoid combat and flag him past the spirit.

And you pointed out exactly what was wrong with it with your comment. "it isn't waht you want in Moddok" exactly! You summon the sin and the spotter is an aggro circle away from him by the time he finished rezzing. Just about everyone who isn't a mental case who has access to Ebon Sin has YMLAD, which is a snare in every sense of the word.

MithranArkanere · Feb 12, 2011, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Whenever I end up on a bad PUG...

...I just take over.
You don't even need to write much. Just some doodles in the radar, a 'look at radar' warning that the other party members echo if they don't follow the radar, and they end up follow whatever you say.

I made SoO in HM with a PUG doing that. I had to carry the torches and doodle them to pick them, because they had no idea about them, but we didn't go a single wipe, few deaths (even against Fendi), and it tooks us less than 40 minutes, so it wasn't so bad.

LifeInfusion · Feb 12, 2011, 04:09 AM // 04:09

I monk for PUGs which have the worst monks in the game, in hard mode. I even did Vloxen, Shards of Orr, and others. It's fun actually since you get to do things the non-meta way like old times. Sucks if you want to get things done fast though.

I do try to help people with their builds using the skills they already have, so I feel like it's better than forcing people to use PvX when they may not have access to the places for the skills or are too cheap/broke for the skills.

Moddock Crevice is henchable even in Hard mode, just bring Deep Freeze + YMLAD.

Most PvX monk hero builds run on Guard mode, since they need to be for Leech signet/Power Drain.

Hobbs · Feb 12, 2011, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

If you were smart you did Moddok Crevice back in 2005 and you wouldn't have this problemo.

Except this is about ZQuests, which cycle every few weeks.

Rites · Feb 12, 2011, 04:59 AM // 04:59

This is a prime example of why i just H/H

the AI is dumb, but I've learned players can be dumber

drkn · Feb 12, 2011, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Quote:

How to deal with PUGS: 6/8 slots are reserved for you, your 3 heroes who will get shit done, and 2 heal/prot henchmen. Anyone you invite to the party is there purely at your pleasure and only needs to outdamage henchmen to be worthwhile. If someone proves themselves to be a shitty person or a shitty player they are kicked.

/thread

I pretty much never PuG, yet i can complete nearly anything in HM with h/h (+ a friend or two sometimes) without damaging my own nerves and getting annoyed by the playskill of people around. And yeah, in most cases relying fully on PvX isn't the way to go.